but some avoided the Box

How come talented players in the 60'es,70'es weren't 'captured' in the box when soloing (weren't the box 'invented' back then?)

The minor pentatonic box has been around since the birth of the blues. You could even argue that it's been around since the invention of standard tuning...

But the reason some players have gone beyond it is simple - they were influenced by different scales and different styles of music. One example is Jeff Beck. He listened to a lot of different stuff and it showed in his playing. Even going back to the Yardbirds, you can hear traces of jazz and eastern music in his playing.

- Rich Johnson

Not to mention that anyone above an intermediate level of play pays no attention to scales whatsoever, they play what sounds good appropriate for what they want to play. Scales are simply for learning. Dont ever feel you need to play a predertimed set of notes. Play what sounds good to you.

My younger brother, our lead guitar player at the time, knew hundreds of scales and practiced them all the time, and ignored them comletely when composing or playing impromptu. Theyre a prison for creativity. Although they are invaluable for the beginner/intermediate in increasing skill and anticipation in what would sound right during an off the top solo.

I never learned a scale other than a pentatonic, I learned, being the drummer, from listening to him solo, and watching him play. I learned what sounded right given the situation, and how to anticipate where I wanted to go on the fretboard. But then again, its taken me twenty years to be at the level I'm at... but thats not to shabby I suppose, given Im really a drummer. Ive taken every college theory course, appriciation, history, ad nausium. Learn how to play what you know sounds good. Ignore scales. If you hit a wrong note, bend the living hell out of it until it sounds right and move on quickly.

Oh My God........there IS someone else that adheres to the 'bend the living hell out of it until it sounds right' school of playing......and admits it!!!! Whewwww.....thought it was just me........I raise a toast to

Don't ignore scales, RK. Learn them backwards and forwards, literally. Start with the pentatonic minor and major at the same time, how they are related, and when to use each one. Then learn the major scales. Learn how they interact with each other. Learn all the modes. Then use them as a launch pad, sort of like a skeleton that you flesh out by wandering out of the key at just the right time to cause interest through tension and releasing that tension by returning to the key.

Don't think of scales as a box that will trap you, but as a support structure that will tie your musical thoughts together. The very best musicians know their scales cold, even if it's just their minor and major pentatonics ( usually in that order ), but they are not afraid to stray out of them at just the right time and in just the right way to make things 'interesting', but not random and meandering.

Learn how to play what you know sounds good. Ignore scales.

Dunno...If I ignored scales, I wouldn't be able to play all of what I think sounds good....

If you hit a wrong note, bend the living hell out of it until it sounds right

Yea, I do that a good bit...But I don't like to make it a habit... I *hate* hitting wrong notes...Makes my a-hole pucker up... Myself, I learn scales, but not the way most people do. I learn them internally, and don't know them by name too often. But, someone could start a scale, IE: maybe 5-6-7 notes, and I can finish it, by ear, all the way up or down the fretboard. I practice scales all the time. Up/down, and down /up...But I don't let them rule my life. When it comes to actually play, I'll play what my ear tells me to, but often, many scales will be involved, and you *must* know them. One way, or the other... I often use a 'box' type vision in my brain to keep track of things, but my vision of a box covers the whole fretboard, and all the different boxes connecting to each other. Or maybe I should say, it's all a lot of interconnecting boxes, that form one big pattern. But I agree, there ain't hardly a bad note that can't be 'semi-fixed' by judicious use of a bend...:/

Dont take my contents out of context. I also said scales were invaluable to the beginer/intermediate. Just dont make a practice out of relying on them for composition or improvisation. Thats all. Play what you want to hear, not a predetermined set of notes. (unless what you want to hear sounds terrible I suppose.)

Rob

Why? You know what sounds good, you know where those notes are on the fretboard, why rely on a predetermined set of notes?

I became rather adept at repairing sour notes through bending because I needed to. I think learning and practicing scales is good for skill and ear development, and anticipations sake in soloing, but I know all of two. E major and a pentatonic. I was wrong when I said I knew only a pentatonic. I dont need them anymore. I know exactly where my fingers need to go to get the sound Im anticipating making. Anyway, yes, a bend is good when needed. It 'almost' sounds like you did it intentionally. Almost.

Well, not knowing the scales and pretend to play is just like never learning the alphabet and pretend to talk... Yes you can do it but it's going to be a hell lot harder. To get a determinate sound out of a phrase you need to know in advance what tool to use... and not correct it 'with a bend' if you miss it. Good players make it look as if the don't care about scales (true to a point) but it is because they know them by heart and know when and how to desviate from them. Just my opinion though...

I agree. For a player who doesnt know what notes fit into a key or style, scales are invaluable.

I don't know any scales other than say a concert scale and I've been the lead guitarist in bands for like eight years. I just learned from trial and error.

Chris