Recording distorted/crunch guitars

Good evening,

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a good (i.e. clear and well defined) distorted rock guitar sound on record? I have been having trouble with this while recording demos for my band. Either the guitars eat the other tracks alive, or they get buried. I can't seem to find a balance. Are there any gadgets or methods that might help? Oh, and I'm using a Fostex MR-8, if that helps any.

Thanks peoples, Jonathan

PS - What basic equipment is absolutely necessary in getting a decent facsimile of 'radio' or 'studio' sound?

John

Recording rock guitars is pretty simple. You put a good mic in front of a good cranked tube amp and hit record.

How are you recording guitars and with what guitar gear?

PS - What basic equipment is absolutely necessary in getting a decent

Compression.

I've also found that the drum sounds on many home recordings are seriously lacking due to the fact that drums are probably the hardest things to record well. There are some studios you can go to that are just for recording drums for like $20 an hour?

Peavey Classic 30 SM-57 Schecter M-33 Epiphone LP Custom

...not much in the way of effects...I try to keep it simple...I just find it extremely difficult, nay, impossible to get a clear, level mix when using crunchy or distorted guitars...perhaps the compression you mention will help fix this problem...thanks

Compression helps everything 'sit' in the mix.

Stuff you hear on the radio every instrument is compressed plus the overall mix is compressed as well.

You have asked a HUGE question. The Fostex is of little importance. Your signal path, and how it interprets your tone will be the challenge.

I've been trying to record guitar tones for about 20 years now. I have a bunch of good instruments, amps, mics and a few decent preamps. It's still hit or miss for me. The same gear sounds superb one day, then lousy the next.

Here are some of my humble discoveries:

* 'Roomy' sounds can be mushy when playing chords. So use fewer roomy guitar sounds together.

* Close-miked sounds are usually more articulate, but can sometimes sound thin by themselves. They are usually easier to layer.

* Roomy sounds are great for single note stuff. Close-miked sounds are better for chords or rhythms.

* I really believe the Shure SM57 sounds awful at LEAST as often as it sounds good. It might be awful more often for me. Sometimes it's just right. They rarely sound good through Mackie preamps. Hearing someone else identify this was a HUGE relief to me.

* Less distortion usually sounds better.

* Cut lows. Bass is for bassists.

* Get your amps up off of the floor. Use a chair or a milk crate or an amp stand. Trust me.

* Cheap preamps rarely sound expensive, but some inexpensive mics sound like a million bucks. Good mic preamps I've encountered: Grace 101, FMR's 'RNP.'

* A handful of decent dynamic mics is more useful for recording guitar cabinets than a single expensive large-diaphragm condensor. Good dynamic mics for guitar amps: Sennheiser MD-421 & E-609, EV 635a & 408.

* Every recording guitarist should own a Telecaster.

* Regardless of what you think your amp sound is, the mic hears something different. Accept it. Learn to find the beauty in what the mic can tell you. Negotiate with it. Sometimes its interpretation is more interesting than the original tone.

* Humbuckers are sneaky. Don't trust them. When they sound right, document what you did to get that sound. Later, marvel that following the same steps doesn't yield the same results. SNEAKY.

* It is easier to get great sounds from small tube amps (30w or lower) than large. Don't try to record a stack at home.

* Layering two completely different kinds of tones can sound much more interesting than simple doubling the part through the same gear.

* Try recording something slightly-more-distorted than you want it to sound. Then layer a cleaner sound. Blend them to taste.

* Keep your guitar out of the way of the vocal.

That should keep you busy for a while. It's been keeping ME busy.

Best of luck,

-dave

That's a lot to digest, but thank you to all who responded. I'm going to do some tinkering soon, and I'll let y'all know if I come up with something lovely.

Good day, sir...

You could write a book on that, but here are a couple of ideas:

Sometimes rolling back the distortion a tad can make your guitar sound more defined.

If a guitar track is really distorted, it doesn't have much dynamic range. So, compression in that case is pretty useless and will just add noise.

Keep the basic rhythm track dry. You'd be surprised at how many people insist on using reverb and effects at all times and end up cluttering their sound.

Ever use a Tech 21 Sans Amp Classic or GT2 pedal and plug it direct into the recording console?

Don't rely on the recording console's EQ to fix things. Get a good sound with your guitar rig.

That's not true at all. If you're compressing the recorded sound of a distorted guitar the compressor is not affected by how much guitar distortion is in the recorded sound.

While it is natural for any guitar or bass player to want to get a 'monster' sound covering the entire audio spectrum, many players go into a studio for the first time, record their 'awesome' sound, and leave it for the engineer or producer to sort out. They may well find that, out of practical necessity, their EQ has had certain ranges cut back to allow other instruments to get through.

It is, therefore, quite beneficial for players to understand where the tonal and musical range of their instrument is, and develop a knack on their own to concentrate on getting a good sound 'where their instrument lives,' and allow the other instruments to live where they do.

One trick that many engineers, live and studio, go to early when faced with a band where everyone is trying to be louder than everyone else, is to roll everything but the vocal back around 2.5-3K to provide a window for the vocal to cut through.

Typical boost center frequencies for bringing out different instruments are:

100hz - Kick drum

200hz - Bass gut

250hz - Low end richness for vocal, guitar

300-700hz - 'blare' on anything

1-2Khz - good frequency for boosting electric guitar leads

2.5-3Khz - makes nearly anything louder, easily obnoxiously so, therefore use with caution and restraint, and avoid boosting here whenever possible

5Khz - adds crispness, briteness to vocal and guitar

7Khz and above - adds sibilence on vocals, sheen on cymbals, but also noise

These ranges are approximate; YMMV

Actually, it usually makes for a cleaner recording if, instead of boosting these to bring individual instruments out, you cut the problem others at the appropriate frequency to allow the one you want to come out.

It is also a given that if you have to either boost or cut anything at the board by very much, there's probably a better way to do it. As in, use your ears and control it before it gets to the console.

Compression, as noted previously, is a very powerful tool as well, but beyond the scope of this post. Likewise, gating and sidechain compression.

One technique used extensively in the studio today for 'over the top' extreme distortion guitars is to 'gate' parts of tracks that would be mostly noise by simply cutting and deleting offending parts in an audio editor. It's nice if the musicians can learn to do this naturally by themselves, by the way they play.

Bottom line: develop your ears and learn as a band to control your individual sounds and parts, play tastefully in your appropriate register, and allow other instruments to be heard where they need to be. You'll then be a tighter, more dynamic and musical band, and have a big advantage in either situation, live or in the studio.

Nice post...thanks for the frequency range list :->

We're finally getting around to recording some of our material. Doing it at home, using my fancy pants soundcard first.

Which is a good thing, because the first thing we discovered while recording is...we're a mess!

I've been trying to convince the band that there's too much competing within frequency ranges for a long time (it's not how I put it, I just suggest that the rhythm guitarist not play in exactly the same position as the lead guitarist...the keyboard player's meanwhile all over the place). Now that we've got a little bit recorded, it's become a little more obvious to them.

It's also become obvious to me that I really need to find a new band.